I fucking love s1, I’ve got art from it in my house and everything. Pedro and Bella just worked as a pairing and I loved them. I chose not to watch s2 cos I hate the plot of the 2nd game, it’s not credible to me and it’s pure misery.
From what others have said, Craig has taken a lot of the misery out which I get. People are unlikely to tune into relentless misery. However the character choices don’t make sense without it. Plus pedro is HUGE and a load of people were watching it for Joel and Ellie.
Not surprised viewing is suffering
The gap was too long. Again and again.
It’s also insane we have gotten to a place with TV shows were 7 episodes a season is wild. We went from 22 a season. Down to 12-13 for game of thrones. And now we are at 7. There has to be more time flushing things out and getting an audience behind all these characters and becoming emotionally invested into the show. You can’t do that with 7 episodes that are roughly around 45 minutes
7 episodes every two years.
The two year gap becoming standard is particularly rough, especially because it often ends up being three years
Yep I lose interest in so many shows that way
Total run time of this entire season of LOU is the same run time as lord of the rings: the fellowship of the ring extended version lolol
It’s not just a straight-up hours game though. You can’t just put it all together and claim it’s one thing. There’s a flow to these things. Individual episodes need to have their own arcs. Each episode has to tell its own story. Or at least a coherent piece of the story. I mean you can’t just chop a movie up into pieces and call it a good television show. It wouldn’t work. So pure hours don’t actually mean much.
I’m well aware of this. But the pacing of the last of us seasons feel like a sprint to the finish.
alot of shows started doing this, and then the actors got too old(ISAIP,spn) and everyone forgot about the series, and then quality went down as well too.
and not as bad as orville, 6 years for 3 seasons, and 4th season may not even materialize, because its always in a limbo. one of the leads of orville(the palacki in rosenbaums podcast) said it was insane and too unaffordable to wait that long per season.
and then the fabled AOT which was almost 10years for 4seasons.
22 episodes, much of it slop. Shorter runs are more interesting.
Sure sometimes, but seven?
22 more time to fleshout arcs without rushing. you cant do that with 7, some cuts have to be made.
I mean sure, but game of thrones episodes were like an hour plus long, and older tv shows like 30 minutes with 2 commercial breaks.
Episodes used to last 20 minutes though.
Cartoons did, but most shows aired for adults lasted 40+ minutes
Korean Dramas tend to be 12-16 in length. Apple seems to mostly hold out at 10.
10 is the sweet spot IMO.
10 per half season is ideal, 10 is pushing it though.
Blake’s 7 I the late 70s/early 80s was thirteen 50 min episodes a season. It’s not a new trend by any means, just perhaps more niche in the past.
disney had 6, yea they are reducing amount per season, just to save money, cheapasses. INVINCIBLE basically had alot material to go through, they couldnt possibly go through the series with that little episode, it will take AOT-level time period to finish all those arcs.
I thought gave it v thrones was 10 every season except for the last two, which, coincidentally ended with 7 episodes
Sadly, without Pedro, the weight of this show is left on Bella’s shoulders. They’re a strong actor, but Ellie has not been written well this season. I hate to say that, as I have been a Craig Mazin fan ever since Chernobyl.
It was made all too clear when we got the flashback episode with Joel. Everything felt right again. And I’m not saying that because Joel was back. But because Pedro and Bella are THAT good together.
I think that the flashbacks should have been spread throughout the season so we never lost Joel’s voice in our ear, and we could keep seeing those sad eyes of his. It would have covered the multitude of sins we’ve seen in the pacing of this second season.
This is the best suggestion I’ve heard for this season’s Ellie problem. I don’t know how people who haven’t played the game feel about this season, but Ellie’s drive for being in Seattle in the first place has felt wildly inconsistent. It’s like she’s flipping a switch on and off, whereas game Ellie is constantly, noticeably pensive, processing, simmering with growing rage. And it’s so important to the rest of the story that I honestly wonder if they’ll be able to save it at this point.
Maybe more Joel was exactly what they needed to keep things on track, keep Ellie’s focus. Because I sure wasn’t feeling it.
Yep Bella was amazing in S1, really incredible. I really don’t like the second game so I’ve not watched s2 but from what I’ve read, they’re not getting good dialogue and they’re dealing with horrible characterisation. Doesn’t matter how good they are, they can’t beat that
I think that the flashbacks should have been spread throughout the season so we never lost Joel’s voice in our ear, and we could keep seeing those sad eyes of his. It would have covered the multitude of sins we’ve seen in the pacing of this second season.
I tough that was what they were to do. Like having each episode advance the flashback plot line a little so we don’t miss Joel from all season until birthday’s flashback.
So they stuck to the second game? I refused to watch even the first because they didn’t.
Oof… Giant spoiler. Guess I won’t watch the end even when I’m desperate now.
I lost interest when they killed off Joel. And I know that happens in the game. TV is a different medium from games. Not surprised that viewership is way down.
Me neither. Pedro and Bella were incredible together. I knew he’d leave so didn’t watch s2, the 2nd game plot ain’t for me
Pedro and Bella had good chemistry. Bella without Pedro? Not so much most of the time. Which is really frustrating because occasionally Bella shows a flash of brilliance and you’re like “OK, she can act.” But too many times Isabela has had to carry the scenes it feels like.
And Abby… I know they have said she doesn’t need to be physically jacked for the TV show, but I’m sorry, I am not really buying it. No offense to the actress they did choose, just not working in this particular role for me at all.
Having said all that, I am still basically enjoying Season 2? A lot of it is really well done, TBH. Just suffering from some unfortunate character dynamics that I think have disappointed a lot of viewers more than me apparently.
The Abby actress should have been Ellie from the start. She is a dead ringer for her. I understand they tried to rectify that by making her Abby instead, but that almost makes it worse as it is so obvious to anyone who has played the game that the wrong person is playing Ellie.
Well, when you remove one of the fan favorites…🤷♂️. Also, the second season has been very dramatic and emotional, some good writing there, but it is slowing turning into the soap opera drama effect that Walking Dead suffered from after season one. Little monsters, more drama = soap opera.
sgu suffered from that, and it never recovered. alot of scifi that does this, rarely recovers.
Yes, agree. Star Trek Discovery turned into the most mind numbing soap opera as each season progressed, to the point it had nothing really to do with the Star Trek genre. It should have been re-titled ‘As The Worlds Turn.’
Not to mention the failure to actually develop any characters. Most seemed to learn a lesson/grow one episode and then revert back immediately the next episode
kinda like SGU, but they kinda grew up in the 2nd season, but it wasnt enough to save the series. drama is meant for drama series, not series that are much too complex for it.
☝️
shouldve been cancelled after the 1st season, after what they did to the klingons, and cloaking tech, the extra cringe was them using words lifted off of memory alpha Wiki page, and some from Beta too. the constant push of THE captain as the lead, whoms name is michael is also so unnatural.
What tripped me up in the last few episodes was how characters magically teleport to places and appear at the exact time they’re needed. I get that some of them happen exactly as in the game, but it’s weird in live action. Examples: Ellie getting out of the basement and Abby finding them in the theater.
Also, that segue on the Scar island in the last episode was weird. I get that they were trying to show she was given a chance at life yet she decides to continue on due to her obsession with revenge, but they could’ve done it better than that (i.e. She sees the explosions on the island from afar, the boat capsizes, she manages to get back on with a slight regret and hesitation to continue, looks at the shore of where she came from contemplating to go back, then ultimately decides to continue on to the aquarium).
I mean, you can tell they had to rush, just look at that scene in the finale here where Ellie capsizes, is almost hung and gutted and then sets off again on her revenge quest in the span of
5 minutes. Actually, make that 3 minutes, I just timed it. I guess it was a way to get us, the viewers, to guess thatWLCWLF was attacking their village?I guess it was a way to get us, the viewers, to guess that WLC was attacking their village?
Yeah, which was a weird way to do it. They could’ve just showed a quick scene of Isaac and co. storming the island then Ellie seeing some explosions from the boat.
I get that they were trying to show she was given a chance at life yet she decides to continue on due to her obsession with revenge
They wanted to show us that even the sephradites kids are savages killers so it’s OK for yhe WLF to kill them because everyone is bad.
This season made it very clear that Bella was a bad casting decision.
She was, but im not sure who would have been better.
And as I type that, I still think her girlfriend this season would have been better casting for her. As would Abby.
The obvious of the fan favorite. But also, the show comes off as a lot more YA than the game since they went with a more flippant immature attitude developing their romance instead of the more serious, driven attitude from the game.
They should have made Ellie take Joel’s role and Dina take Ellie’s role.
I didn’t hate it. But they had a template.
I don’t mind changes. But it should serve a purpose. Fewer zombies makes sense to me. It’s not a video game, the suspension of disbelief is different. I like a seeing clickers basically equate to somebody probably dying. Bill made a ton of sense for a TV show.
But changing Tommy’s role, Ellie’s entire personality, their relationship, it made everything worse.
Personally, I haven’t watched the second season because I haven’t played the second game yet. Though, in all honesty, if I haven’t played it by now, I’m likely not going to play it any time soon, so I should probably just watch the show.
I would recommend playing the game first or ditch the rest of the series altogether. Certain important moments need to be felt really hard and the series is just not delivering that. I played the game twice actually and it still works. It’s a bit long though.
Let’s remember the second game was not received as well due to the story. Everything else about the game got better but that story. Well after episode 7, I can honestly say they could have done worse.
No, no, the second game wasn’t received well because right wingers didn’t like the lesbians or the butch lady, and so it was heavily review bombed.
You can argue some people had legitimate criticisms, as they will, this is always how the confusion circus goes, but you cannot separate this game’s release from the anti-sjw hate campaign that was built around it.
The Last of Us Part II has some fan-tastic story beats that I will defend to death.
Can’t help but think the show has flubbed some of them though. Like revealing why Abby hates Joel so early on.
Seriously, that switch over in the game was such a trip. I think they really missed out having that.
The whole concept of being the villain in someone else’s story is such a good one.
And then ask you get online is “butch lady bad”, or that Joel wouldn’t trust them. Conveniently forgetting he trusted Henry and Sam in the first game. If Henry wasn’t a good guy, Joel’s story would have been a lot shorter.
I was a bit disappointed when I saw Abby in the show version. I was hoping for some serious Cherlize Theron level body change in the show between flashback Abby and current Abby. I figured that’d be the hardest casting in the series, and instead they just… didn’t. It was supposed to be this swole vs. survivor battle between Ellie and Abby, and instead… i think Bella could take her, honestly.
Yeah, that’s a bummer.
I haven’t seen much of the show, but this does remind me of a moment in… episode 2, I think? Where they make a joke about the fungus not having airborne spores. And I was like, “have them or don’t, but don’t make fun of me, what the hell?” I liked the airborne spores, haha.
The story has good moments, and I loved the game play.
But the motivation for both Ellie and Abby has always been the weakest point for me. And that translated into the show. Both being driven by essentially only vengeance left me with a lot to desire. I didn’t particularly like the periods where I had to play as Abby because I didn’t think she had anything exciting to make me like her.
Without that initial drive the rest felt like it didn’t have a good foundation. Especially when the first had so much driving Joel and Ellie to reach the fireflies.
Well, I think vengeance is probably a difficult thing for people to sympathize with in general. Seemingly everyone, even us, give up on it long before Ellie does. Personally, I did believe that she wanted to keep going even if I didn’t.
The difficult thing with Abby is that she’s built up like a monster, so when you switch perspectives, it almost feels like a cheap trick at first. Her being butch and woke or whatever didn’t help, but it is a tough transition, to be sure. The thing I liked about it, though, when they finally face off: I didn’t know who I wanted to win. I liked Ellie a lot more, but I also thought she was a worse person. To me, the game made the case for why Abby should live, and I kind of agreed.
I agree that a group of idiots hated it and review bombed it. Maybe the were jealous Abby had a bigger clit then them, who knows. However, part II sold less then part I. That can’t be hand waved off. Even the show is displaying a dip in viewers.
Part II just feels rushed or poorly planned out. Maybe if they bridged the games it would help. Part I was a father protecting an adopted daughter. Part II should have been the reverse. Part III could be the death and revenge story. It would have worked better. Intead it felt like a bait and switch.
Didn’t play the second game, but the issue I had with season 2 was it was disjointed and you could ‘feel’ the game style storytelling.
While the first game from a story standpoint was very much on rails, I’d gather that the second game was very much not linear levels like the game was for the first one?
Bella is a decent actress, but she’s not a series lead. The show felt too heavy for her shoulders, and that’s okay. Idk how much of the characters development (or lack thereof) was her or the game storytelling, but it just felt flat as the season progressed if that makes sense.
The show is amazing but ep 7 was very weak. The magic bullet was a kin to jumping the shark. I’m sure the 7 ep season didn’t help.
Honestly the last few episodes weren’t that good to me. 7 is too short for a show, and she wasn’t a good enough actress to carry the show without Pedro.
That’s okay, it’s just an issue for them to solve.
the second game was very much not linear levels like the game was for the first one?
It does ping pong between different flashback perspectives and whatnot. I… probably wouldn’t call it linear.
This might be more up for debate, but I did really like Ellie’s character development in Part 2; it echoed some things I thought about Joel in Part 1.
For me her character just seemed very one note. She seemed to have remorse at the end for the ACTION she did, but the problem is, she was just very ‘here’s my goal and I’m going to do it’ the rest of the season.
Idk, to each their own, but the story was way worse than season 1 for me.
I was talking about the game, sorry. 😅
I’ve only seen a bit of season 1 the show.ahhh fair!
This article is saying that Part 1 sold 6 million in one year, and Part 2 sold 10 million in 2 years. Bit odd that it’s using such bizarre numbers, but I don’t see how this isn’t a success.
If you’re talking all time, Part 1 came out 5 years sooner and it’s the first in a sequence—it’s always going to have those advantages.
When it released in summer 2013 for the PlayStation 3, it sold [6 million copies] within almost a full year after release. By 2018, two years before The Last of Us Part II, the first title sold [18 million copies] across the PS3 and its PlayStation 4 remaster.
As of June 2022, The Last of Us Part II for the PS4 reached [10 million copies] since its summer 2020 release.
Part I sold 18 mil. 6 mil the first year and 12 mil the next 4 year.
Part II sold 10 mil over 2 years.
Maybe you can find a more up-to-date sales figures but usually the second game out paces the first game.
the second game was not received well by the vocal neckbeards.
I feel like that was an engineered perception based in a vocal group of idiots, TBH. I played the second game at launch and it rocked me to my core. The story was strong in my opinion.
Yeah the same idiots that thought Abby having muscles meant she was the trans character
Egads, I was unaware that was as thing too. That’s even stupider!
Part to blame for those stats. Watched S1 but not S2, and I don’t know if I will. I loosely remember the plot and names of the characters. Lost all interest and I don’t want to invest my time on a series that may or may not have an ending, or if I’m alive by then.
I’m also part of the drop because hbo decided they were going to drastically reduce the quality of my streams while maintaining the same price. I went ahead and canceled my subscription.
I got so bored and annoyed after the first few episodes of season two.
The brat seems to be fully stupid and a walking “teenager” cliche, and the guy is just… going through therapy? And we have to watch?
Yeah, no thanks. That’s not good TV.
